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Forum:Starter Wikia - adding templates to it or changing them

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:Familypedia's version has some nice features, but is overly complicated. It has a dependency on 5 other templates. Not the kind of thing for starter, in my mind. --&nbsp;[[User:Fandyllic|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Former WoWWiki Admin">Fandyllic</span>]]<small> ([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contr]])</small> 10:53 PM PST 26 Aug 2010
 
:Familypedia's version has some nice features, but is overly complicated. It has a dependency on 5 other templates. Not the kind of thing for starter, in my mind. --&nbsp;[[User:Fandyllic|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Former WoWWiki Admin">Fandyllic</span>]]<small> ([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contr]])</small> 10:53 PM PST 26 Aug 2010
   
::They're actually using a copy of Wikipedia's [[wikipedia:Template:Documentation|template]], as of this May: [http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:Documentation&diff=506044&oldid=337068]. There are definitely more features we could borrow from Wikipedia's version (that is where I originally picked up the ideas for the purge link and the preload system), but I rather like the look of Wikia's version and would prefer to keep it more-or-less intact, though I would like to move the styles to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]].
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:They're actually using a copy of Wikipedia's [[wikipedia:Template:Documentation|template]], as of this May: [http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:Documentation&diff=506044&oldid=337068]. There are definitely more features we could borrow from Wikipedia's version (that is where I originally picked up the ideas for the purge link and the preload system), but I rather like the look of Wikia's version and would prefer to keep it more-or-less intact, though I would like to move the styles to [[MediaWiki:Common.css]].
::As to subtemplates, I would actually argue exactly the opposite - as long as they're properly designed and used, we shouldn't be afraid of using an arbitrary number of subtemplates and meta-templates (''particularly'' meta-templates, such as {{t|Navbox}} or {{t|Edit}}, which can be used in a variety of templates), since everything on the Starter Wikia gets copied to new wikis automatically. At the same time, though, we ''should'' make an effort to document these dependencies, and we should also consider how much complexity might be too much - we're not Wikipedia, and most templates don't need to be nearly as feature-laden and customizable as they do on WP.
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:As to subtemplates, I would actually argue exactly the opposite - as long as they're properly designed and used, we shouldn't be afraid of using an arbitrary number of subtemplates and meta-templates (''particularly'' meta-templates, such as {{t|Navbox}} or {{t|Edit}}, which can be used in a variety of templates), since everything on the Starter Wikia gets copied to new wikis automatically. At the same time, though, we ''should'' make an effort to document these dependencies, and we should also consider how much complexity might be too much - we're not Wikipedia, and most templates don't need to be nearly as feature-laden and customizable as they do on WP.
::Lastly, it would be a major alteration, but much of it is simply code simplification and cleanup - I've worked Wikia's Doc template over several times in the course of adding new features, and am quite proud to say how much of the original code I've managed to shave off. =)
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:Lastly, it would be a major alteration, but much of it is simply code simplification and cleanup - I've worked Wikia's Doc template over several times in the course of adding new features, and am quite proud to say how much of the original code I've managed to shave off. =)
::''Really'' lastly (yeah, I lied above =/ ), as a more general comment, should we fork versions of templates we're looking to move to Starter, or to update Starter's versions with, so that we can properly work out the exact code and documentation to be ported, and if so, where should they be forked to? (I'm thinking that any such forking system should feature a forked version of the template(s) and documentation, as well as a "cover page" of sorts with any needed instructions for the final copying process, e.g. styles to add/update in Common.css, so the person copying doesn't have to cut bits from the documentation before saving.) <span style="white-space:nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ダイノ</span><span style="color:#080;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千?!</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|Talk⇒Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 07:40, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
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:''Really'' lastly (yeah, I lied above =/ ), as a more general comment, should we fork versions of templates we're looking to move to Starter, or to update Starter's versions with, so that we can properly work out the exact code and documentation to be ported, and if so, where should they be forked to? (I'm thinking that any such forking system should feature a forked version of the template(s) and documentation, as well as a "cover page" of sorts with any needed instructions for the final copying process, e.g. styles to add/update in Common.css, so the person copying doesn't have to cut bits from the documentation before saving.) <span style="white-space:nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#00f;">ダイノ</span><span style="color:#080;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color:#F90;">千?!</span>]]」<sup>[[wikipedia:Help:IJP|?]] · [[User talk:Dinoguy1000#top|Talk⇒Dinoguy1000]]</sup></span> 07:40, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Before you go all pro subtemplates you should spend a few months answering questions at [[w:Forum:Community Central Forum]]. At least half the template questions are from people who have mucked up a template by not taking into a account a sub template or trying to get a template to work without copying the sub template.
 
:::Starter should have the simplest, but most useful templates. Extra features should come without dependencies unless absolutely necessary. Wikipedia can handle it because it is one wiki with possibly 10s of millions of users.
 
:::You should also look at [[w:User blog:Sarah Manley/Sneak Peek at the New Look - Community Activity]]. We need to worry about the folks who enthusiastically want to contribute, but know little or nothing about the technical underpinnings of wikis. --&nbsp;[[User:Fandyllic|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Former WoWWiki Admin">Fandyllic</span>]]<small> ([[User talk:Fandyllic|talk]] &middot; [[Special:Contributions/Fandyllic|contr]])</small> 10:49 AM PST 27 Aug 2010
 
   
 
::::Since you pointed it out, I spent a couple of hours looking over random questions there. I would hardly say this qualifies me to speak of it unequivocally, but according to what I saw there, most questions from people trying to get a template to work were cases where the person was trying to copy templates, often from Wikipedia (this is one reason I have [[wikipedia:User:Dinoguy1000/Featured templates|advocated for a featured templates process]] on Wikipedia, where one of the requirements for promotion would be one or more versions suitable for transwiki use - but that, of course, has little-to-naught to do with this discussion). The rest seemed to simply be run-of-the-mill "how does template code/parser functions/parameters/etc. work" questions.
 
::::Since you pointed it out, I spent a couple of hours looking over random questions there. I would hardly say this qualifies me to speak of it unequivocally, but according to what I saw there, most questions from people trying to get a template to work were cases where the person was trying to copy templates, often from Wikipedia (this is one reason I have [[wikipedia:User:Dinoguy1000/Featured templates|advocated for a featured templates process]] on Wikipedia, where one of the requirements for promotion would be one or more versions suitable for transwiki use - but that, of course, has little-to-naught to do with this discussion). The rest seemed to simply be run-of-the-mill "how does template code/parser functions/parameters/etc. work" questions.
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